多納泰拉範思哲 放鬆讓我緊張

In the third of a video series on designers’ private working spaces, we go into the studio with Donatella Versace to discuss self-esteem, mistakes and why drawing isn’t so important. And those were just the outtakes. (This conversation was condensed and edited.) VANESSA FRIEDMAN

米蘭——在“設計師的私人工作空間”系列視頻的第三集，我們走進多納泰拉·範思哲(Donatella Versace)的工作室，討論自信、錯誤以及素描爲何不那麼重要的原因。下文是其摘錄（對話經過剪輯和濃縮）。

Q. When most people think of Versace, they think of the palazzo on Via Gesù, but it turns out you work somewhere else.

問：提起範思哲，大部分人想到的是耶穌街的豪華宮殿，沒想到你實際上在別的地方工作。

A. I moved here 10 years ago. Before, my office was in Via Gesù, in the building where Gianni’s house was. Now we use that garden to do fashion shows, and we have a floor to do showrooms, but in this building are myself and my P.R. people, my assistants and some of the marketing people who work with P.R. Downstairs are all my design teams: first-line Versace woman, accessories, first-line Versace men, house, Versus, children, Versace jeans. Now, you know, I’m tending to realize how many lines we have. It’s scary. I don’t want to count. Sometimes to plan a meeting is impossible, so we talk in the corridor. Sometimes we shout.

答：我十年前搬到了這裏。之前我的辦公室在耶穌街詹尼(Gianni)的宅邸裏。現在我們用那個花園舉辦時裝秀，有一層是展廳。但是我和公關人員、助理以及部分市場人員在這裏工作。樓下是我的全部設計團隊：範思哲主線女裝、配飾、範思哲主線男裝、家居系列、Versus系列、童裝、範思哲牛仔褲。現在，你知道，我開始意識到我們有多少個服裝系列。太可怕了，我可不想去數。有時，連安排會議都很困難，所以我們就在走廊上交談。有時我們大聲喊話。

When you moved in, did you have to do a lot of work to the building?

問：你搬進來時，對這座大樓進行了很多改造嗎？

Yes. Wherever I go, I need to be — to feel I’m in a Versace place, and this didn’t look like a Versace place. It looked like a normal office for, you know, bankers. I need to surround myself with objects that remind me of something.

答：是的。不管走到哪兒，我都需要感覺自己處在一個範思哲空間。這個地方當時看起來不像範思哲。它當時看起來像個給銀行家用的普通辦公室。我需要讓自己周圍有很多能喚醒我的東西。

For example?

問：比如？

The picture on the left wall is a joyful moment, when we were all in Miami: me, my children and Gianni, and we were having fun, having breakfast next to the pool, and doing taekwondo all together, and Gianni is in the water with Allegra. Those are the moments I cherish in my life.

答：左邊牆上那幅照片讓我想起曾經的快樂時光——當時我們都在邁阿密：我、孩子們和詹尼。我們玩得很高興，在泳池邊吃早餐，一起練跆拳道。詹尼和阿萊格拉(Allegra)在水裏。我特別珍惜生命中的這些時刻。

You’ve got three seating areas in your office: couches, a round table and a desk. Do they have different purposes?

問：你的辦公室有三個就座區：沙發、圓桌和書桌。它們有不同的用途嗎？

I often sit here on the couch when I visit with my friends or a few of my designer teams. We watch videos of shows here, usually to correct mistakes. Yesterday, we were all sitting on the floor here, and we watched the couture show in Paris. And I asked them, “What went wrong?” I have to challenge people and push people to tell me the truth. I put myself in the place of these people. They are afraid that I’m going to fire them. But I think you have to push forward and challenge yourself all the time. You have to be ready to say, “This is old, go forget and start again.” I like to discover mistakes, to make it better. I don’t think I’m that good. I think I can do much better.

答：我的朋友或設計團隊裏的幾個人來的時候，我們經常坐在沙發上。我們在這裏觀看時裝秀的視頻，通常是爲了改正錯誤。昨天，我們坐在這裏的地板上，觀看我們在巴黎的高級定製時裝秀。我問他們：“哪裏有問題？”我必須盤問他們，迫使他們說出實情。我把自己置於和他們一樣的位置。他們總是擔心我會解僱他們。但是我覺得你必須一直前進，挑戰自己。你必須隨時說出：“這個太舊了，忘了它吧，重新開始。”我喜歡發現錯誤，把它變得更好。我覺得自己不夠好。我覺得我能做得更好。

What mistake did you make?

問：你犯過什麼錯誤？

I saw two models walking badly, not because they cannot walk but because I chose the wrong fabric to embroider. It was too light for the embroidery, so it was a little bit tricky when they walked.

答：我曾經看到兩個模特走得很難看，不是因爲她們不會走秀，而是因爲我選錯了刺繡的面料。那種面料太輕了，不適合刺繡，所以，模特走秀時有點彆扭。

What happens at the round table?

問：圓桌是用來做什麼的？

That table is scary. When I have to do a meeting with my C.E.O. or C.F.O. or some of the management team, and it’s a serious meeting, when I have something to say that they won’t like it, the most difficult things to resolve, what I think is not going well in the company, we sit around the table. So this table is wide, it’s gold, it’s very glamorous.

答：那張桌子很可怕。當我不得不和首席執行官、首席財務官或管理團隊的一些人開會時，我們就會坐在那裏。那些都是嚴肅會議，我會說一些他們不喜歡的話，討論最難解決的問題，以及我覺得公司存在的一些問題。所以這張桌子很大，它是金色的，非常棒。

And the desk?

問：那張書桌呢？

It’s me going on the website and seeing what happens. Me and the computer. I am a very impatient woman. I cannot sit for long. I have to move. You see me more often in the center when I’m up and pounding the floor in this room.

答：我上網看新聞時坐在那裏。那裏只有我和電腦。我很沒耐心，坐不住。我必須動起來。你經常能看見我在這個房間裏蹦蹦跳跳。

Talk me through your day.

問：跟我談談你的日常生活吧。

I wake up very early in the morning — 6:30 to 7 — and do a little bit in the gym. Not because I love it but because I need to do it to keep my body healthy. And I have a light breakfast. I have a glam squad, who help me to do hair and makeup every morning. I don’t look like this when I wake up, you know. I need a little help. And then I go to the office and talk to my assistants, go through all the mail. And then I go straight downstairs and just wander around.

答：我早上很早就醒來——6點半至7點——在健身房鍛鍊一會兒。不是因爲我喜歡鍛鍊，而是因爲我需要這樣做來保持身體健康。我早餐吃得很清淡。我有一個美容團隊，他們幫我做頭髮、化妝。你知道我醒來時不是這樣的。我需要一點幫助。然後我去辦公室，和助手們談話，看完所有的郵件。然後我直接下樓，四處查看。

Do you find inspiration in books?

問：你在書中尋找靈感嗎？

I find inspiration in books, I find inspiration in memories. I like to travel. I like to look at people on the planes, I like to look at people in the streets in cities. I’m not a person who goes on vacation to retreat or to relax, because relaxing makes me nervous. If I go to relax, I get nervous.

答：我在書中尋找靈感，在記憶裏尋找靈感。我喜歡旅行。我喜歡觀察飛機上的人。我喜歡觀察城市街上的人。我度假不是爲了休息或者放鬆，因爲放鬆讓我緊張。一放鬆，我就緊張。

You don’t draw, so how do you communicate your ideas for a new collection?

問：你不畫素描，那麼你如何傳達自己關於新系列的想法呢？

I think the drawing is the least important thing for today. I communicate through shapes. And proportion. Proportion is the most important thing in an outfit. If you are a really fashion victim, you don’t care about proportion — you’ll do, like, a huge skirt that nobody will walk in and go nowhere. But I’m a real woman, in a real life.

答：我覺得如今素描是最不重要的事情。我通過圖形和比例去交流。比例對一件衣服來說最重要。如果你真的是不惜一切代價追求時髦，那麼你可以不在乎比例——你可以穿一件沒人會穿出去的超大裙子。但我是個現實的女人，生活在現實中。

How much do your clothes reflect you?

問：你的衣服在多大程度上體現了你的性格？

They reflect me in the sense of a modern woman, probably. But I have a very special body type: I’m not tall, and I’m not — I wear certain things. I try to convey this through my clothes: Be determined. Fight for what you believe, don’t be afraid, and get ready to be viewed by critics.

答：它們很可能體現了我作爲現代女性的一面。但是我的身材很特別：我不高，我不——我只穿某些衣服。我想通過服裝努力傳達這一點：意志堅定。爲你所信奉的理念奮鬥，不畏懼，隨時迎接批評家的評論。

How much does this work space reflect that attitude?

問：這個工作空間從多大程度上反映了那種態度？

This office reflects my open mind, because it’s white. You know, white is endless; you can go in a white tunnel and always see the lights. I think it’s a color that opens your mind, opens your spirit, you feel totally free, looking at white. But it doesn’t have to be a minimal white. Nothing’s minimal here.

答：這間辦公室反映了我的開放心態，因爲它是白色的。你知道，白色沒有邊際；你走進一個白色隧道，總能看見光。我覺得這種顏色能打開你的思維，釋放你的靈魂，看着白色你感覺完全自由。但它不一定是極簡主義的白色。這裏所有的東西都不是極簡主義的。

Do you have much distinction between your public and your private lives?

問：你的公衆生活和私生活之間有很大不同嗎？

My private life, nobody believes me, is really — when I finish my work, working here, I’ll go to a show or after-party, but when I get home from those things, I lock myself in the apartment and I don’t want to hear anything. I’m the most antisocial person you can think about. Even if nobody believes me. This is the city where I work, you know. I don’t have too many friends here. Actually I don’t have any friends at all, out of this office. My friends are around the world. I call them on the phone and talk.

答：沒人會相信，我的私生活真的——我在這裏完成工作後，會去觀看時裝秀或者參加餘興派對，但是我回家後，把自己鎖在寓所裏，不想聽到任何東西。我是你能想到的最不愛社交的人。儘管沒人相信這一點。你知道，這只是我工作的城市。我在這裏沒有太多朋友。實際上我在辦公室之外沒有任何朋友。我的朋友在世界各地。我們打電話聯繫。

What’s the hardest part of your job?

問：你的工作中最難的部分是什麼？

It’s my self-esteem. I trained myself to hide my vulnerability and my insecurity for a long time. I give in to these two emotions only when I am alone. At the end of the day, I’m just kind of thinking, “Is it good enough?” The next day I wake up and I’m like, “Oh, yeah, that was fine.” But usually, in the evening, I have that half an hour that I think I did everything wrong.

答：自信。有很長一段時間，我訓練自己隱藏脆弱和不安全感。只有在獨處時，我才釋放這兩種情緒。每天結束時，我會想：“這夠好嗎？”第二天醒來我心想：“哦，是的，我昨天做得挺好的。”但是在晚上，總有那麼半個小時，我覺得自己做得完全不對。